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A Blog for the LGBT Community Who Love To CruiseRandall Shirley: Editor
Tom Baker: Cruise Expert
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Tagged: Oosterdam RSS
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Randall Shirley
UPDATED: Passenger sues cruise line, and wants a list of ALL passengers on board. WTF?
The Holland America Oosterdam anchored at Cabo San Lucas © Randall Shirley
UPDATE to this case is at the bottom of this story.
Well here’s something new in my personal email inbox: an email from Holland America Line, which was sent to me and the other 1,500+ passengers who sailed the Oosterdam a couple of years ago on the Mexican Riviera. There was quite a large gay contingency on that ship, with very fun gay socials hosted by the inimitable Randall Powell (the ship’s piano bar entertainer, at the time).
Anyhoo…seems someone on the ship got injured and has sued the cruise line, and her s lawyers have now forced Holland America to provide them a list of every passenger on the sailing, which included me and my husband. The email reads:
Dear Valued Guest,
First and foremost, we want to thank you for sailing with us.
We are writing in relation to your sailing aboard the ms Oosterdam in early March 2011. A guest on that cruise has commenced a lawsuit against Holland America Line in regard to an accident she had on board. As part of that lawsuit, her attorneys requested contact information for certain persons thought to be witnesses. Holland America Line provided that contact information. The guest’s attorneys then requested contact information for every passenger on the cruise.
Holland America Line values its guests’ privacy and argued against providing private contact information for every guest on the cruise. Nonetheless, a local judge has ordered Holland America Line to provide the information. We must comply with the court’s order, and so will be providing the name, address and phone number of all guests on the cruise. No other personal information will be provided.
As such, you may receive a phone call or letter from attorneys representing the guest [name blocked here for privacy], to discuss her injury claim against Holland America Line. It is entirely your choice whether to communicate with the guest’s attorneys.
We would like to thank you once again for joining us aboard the ms Oosterdam. We greatly appreciate all of our guests and hope that we may welcome you aboard another sailing soon.
Sincerely,
Guest Relations
Holland America LineI’ve never seen anything quite like this, and god knows the cruise industry hates this sort of thing.
Have you ever been injured on a cruise and blamed the cruise line? How did it turn out? To you lawyers out there, how do you predict this passenger’s suit will go?
UPDATE. This note came from Holland America just one day after the original. IMO sounds like some serious miscommunication between their legal and customer relations departments that allowed the letter to go out in the first place. Nonetheless, I’m interested in your thoughts on injuries and such at sea.
Dear Valued Guest,
We are writing to follow up on an advisory you received from us recently regarding your ms Oosterdam sailing in March of 2011.
We previously advised that Holland America Line had been ordered to produce contact information for every guest on this sailing in response to an ongoing lawsuit. We are pleased to report that the suit was settled only a few days before our deadline to produce the guest contact information. As such, your contact information was not released and you should not expect to be contacted by any attorneys in relation to this matter.
Again, we thank you for your patronage, as well as your understanding. We look forward to being given the opportunity to sail with you again soon.
Kind regards,
Guest Relations
Holland America LineNote: the author traveled as a guest of Holland America Line on the above mentioned cruise. The cruise line has not reviewed this content, and the author’s opinions remain his own.
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Randall Shirley
Overall impressions of Holland America as a gay-friendly cruise option
The Holland America Oosterdam anchored at Cabo San Lucas © Randall Shirley
The Canadian border guard raised his eyes when we told him where we were coming home from. “Aren’t you guys the wrong demographic for a Holland America* cruise?” he asked.
I’m not sure who answered more loudly, but both Denni and I effused, “no way—the Oosterdam’s mix of passengers was really broad.” What we didn’t mention to the officer (but could have, this is Canada) is how very comfortable we felt as a gay couple on the Oosterdam.
Of the approximately 50 gay couples on board the ship, Denni and I were the only ones seen holding hands around the ship…but that’s just us. Toward the end of the cruise some of the other gay passengers asked us how we could seem so comfortable, and if it didn’t bother us that people stared. Well, frankly people didn’t stare. Sure, a few double-takes…but I believe that’s only because we’re both so damn butch (LOL, really).
This being the third time I’ve sailed Holland America (the first two were all-gay charters), I think it’s safe to say that the line is reasonably gay friendly. I’ve been told that some of the older Seattle management prefer not to think about the gays, and was told onboard the Oosterdam that the Dutch officers are often, and surprisingly, quite homophobic. I’m sure that could be said for much of the ship’s staff, too—after all, many of them come from developing nations where homosexuality is not an open topic.
But from a traveler’s perspective, my hands-on experience says the majority of people are just fine with us.
- Our beds were already made into a king when we boarded—the cabin steward asked us if we wanted them separated but didn’t blink when we said “no.”
- The ship’s photographers took and posted photos of Denni and me just like all the straight couples—even one of me giving him a peck on the cheek on the Cabo pier. One evening we did a formal portrait together, and the Russian photographer (female) was plenty accommodating of special requests—including a surprising pose that she’s now adding to her main repertoire.
- The dining staff were friendly and professional, never a second glance.
- The ship’s officers (rarely seen) were also friendly enough.
- About the only thing we didn’t do on the cruise was dance together, and that’s because we just never got around to it.
As for the other passengers, again, never a second glance. We had families on board, and I know some very religious folks (I can spot Mormon underwear a mile away), but again, no issues at all.
Other Oosterdam gay passengers were elite-level members with Holland America’s frequent-sailor club, which also indicates the comfort level of sailing this line.
The Oosterdam will be used in a few weeks for an all-lesbian Olivia Cruise, and a few weeks later for an Atlantis all-gay cruise. If you’re onboard either of those sailings, you can thank Denni and me for paving the way with the current staff and crew (of course, cruise ship staff turns over about every 6 months).
See our disclosure policy
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Randall Shirley
Out on board—so many gays the Oosterdam is practically a gay cruise!
There have always been lots of gays on cruise ships. And the Holland America Oosterdam* is no exception … on this particular sailing there are scores of “out” gays and lesbians, both singles and couples.
Every “sea day” afternoon, piano man Randall Powell turns the Oosterdam piano bar into the ship’s gay bar. Powell is the self-appointed gay host onboard this ship, and his huge dose of infectious energy sucks about 40 people – mostly gay men – into the piano bar for an afternoon mix and mingle. It’s pleasant and chatty.
On the first day, Powell had a rainbow flag draped across the grand piano, and little gay flags (rainbow, bear, leather) tucked in with the table-top flower arrangements.
I like this afternoon idea, and I like that it’s hosted by a very out and loud and visible member of the ship’s staff. Powell has worked on Holland America ships for many years, and plans on many more (his partner currently sails with him, too – entertainment staff are allowed such perks and get regular passenger cabins).
These mingles have allowed us to easily connect with other gays on the ship (although we can still see plenty of people who don’t participate in the LGBT gatherings, their loss). We’ve made nice new friends from Sacramento, and are getting to know the couple we connected with through MeetMeOnBoard.com prior to the trip.
Around the ship. At home in Vancouver, Canada, Denni and I are a very visible “out” couple – and we continue that wherever we vacation, including our current cruise on Holland America Oosterdam. We do the same things straight couples do. We:
- Hold hands all around the ship
- Greet with a brief kiss
- Put our hand on each others’ leg in the theatre
- Speak in “couple-ese”
In other words, we don’t edit. We don’t do it to make a statement, we just do it because we’re comfortable with ourselves as gay men, and don’t care if anyone is offended by homosexuals. I believe the only way we become normal is to be fully visible.
We have experienced no negative reaction to our visibility as a gay couple, and that’s exactly how it should be.
Have you cruised Holland America? What was the LGBT meeting like on your cruise?
Good morning from beautiful Cabo San Lucas!
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Dave
Hi Randall,
I just read your latest positing on MMOB. Thanks ever so much for sharing your comments reagrding being gay and not hiding it – anywhere, including on the cruise ship trip you and yours are currently traveling on. I truly appreciate your statements – I wish more people felt like you do, and have the courage to say it.
Dave
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Peter
Hi R -
My friend and I were on the same cruise and had similar observations.
The crew and passengers were very friendly and we never felt singled out.
Re: the “LGBT Meeting”, it felt a bit contrived given the name. It sounded like a rally of some sort. By the day of the first meeting at sea, my friend and I had already met and/or figured out some of the “family” on board including crew members.
I guess we would have liked for the “meeting” to happen more organically. But at the same time, I understand that it’s a short period of time for folks to get to know one another and a group gathering is probably the best way.
On previous cruises, it used to be “Friends of Dorothy” which I thought was a bit of throwback. Some generations may not even know the term. Maybe something other than “meeting” would help. e.g. gathering, get together, meet and greet, party, cocktails, etc.
Re: the loss, you are right. We should have at least participated in the first event and brought the folks we had met along.
All said, we had a really nice time, met some nice people and will probably do it again.
Best,
Peter
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Darrell
We were on the Noordam with Randall Powell a few years ago and he is a wonderful addition to any cruise. His piano bar was the place to be at least sometime every night. And as the Gay Host he is the best. I’m glad you are having a good time. And glad to hear Mr. Powell is still tickling the passengers, as well as the ivories.
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randall
Hey Randall , this is the other Randall!!! Thanks for telling everyone about the LGBT Gatherings, I look forward to makeing new friends!! see you all soon!!
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Randall Shirley
And now: report from the Oosterdam steam room
My partner and I are currently sailing aboard Holland America (HAL) Oosterdam* on what I call the “Edited Love Boat” itinerary: San Diego, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, Cabo San Lucas, 3 sea days. This is my third time sailing HAL, and my first on a “mainstream” itinerary. I previously sailed them on all-gay itineraries (Maasdam 2001; Westerdam 2008).
The Holland America Oosterdam* has joined many other ships in charging a premium to use the steam room(s), sauna, and specialty whirlpool. The fee is $220/week per couple ($199 if you pay for it the first day), or $40/person on a daily-fee basis. On the Oosterdam, this package includes two very nice, co-ed steam rooms done in pale yellow and white ceramic tiles; one of the rooms is citrus scented. It also includes a lounge area with 6 heated, ceramic tile lounge chairs. During our day-one tour of the spa, and before deciding to buy the pass, the girl got Denni and I to lie down on the lounges…we were sold. The gentle radiating heat is just the ticket for two backs that are tired from computer-heavy jobs and long days of airplane travel.
Hanky panky? You know my attitude on cruise ship steam room sex: I disapprove. On this itinerary, I haven’t seen anyone “try” anything in the steam…probably because most of the closeted guys who usually go for that can’t figure out how to buy the pass without their wives wanting it, too. We have noticed a guy trolling the locker room, and while he hasn’t done anything overt, it’s obvious that he’s looking for something. I seriously doubt he’s finding it. I’m sure his wife wonders where he constantly is…
Meanwhile, as we’re wrapping up our first port day (Puerto Vallarta), a lot of us gays are back on board a few hours before “all aboard,” and many have been at the spa. We’ve had fun, appropriate conversations…and if anyone is taking it sexual it’s happening in their staterooms, as it should, regardless of the fact that it’s a coed facility (women rarely use the steam, just the ceramic lounges).
I’ve discovered that the dry (wood) sauna is sex-segregated. It’s extremely small, and with a glass door that precludes much from happening as there would be little time to stop the, um, action just on hearing the outer door open.
That’s the story from the cruise ship steam room onboard the Oosterdam. What’s happening where you are?
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Rex
Thanks for the Steam Room review!
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Randall Shirley
Age, gender, and gays on the Holland America Oosterdam: what’s your ideal passenger balance?
My partner and I are currently sailing aboard Holland America (HAL) Oosterdam* on what I call the “Edited Love Boat” itinerary: San Diego, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, Cabo San Lucas, 3 sea days. This is my third time sailing HAL, and my first on a “mainstream” itinerary. I previously sailed them on all-gay itineraries (Maasdam 2001; Westerdam 2008).
Holland America Line (HAL) has a reputation for being the favorite of extremely elderly travelers and not-so-popular with younger folks. Since my two previous voyages on Holland America were all-gay itineraries, I was curious to see what the mix would be on this mainstream itinerary aboard the Oosterdam.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised! The ship (which seems to be well-sold) is a really nice balance of ages. There are a few oxygen tanks around, and a few strollers, and everybody in between. That’s our ideal mix…we really like a balance of ages, and not too many children as that can feel overwhelming.
Gays and lesbians on board. The first “LGBT Meet” was held on day 2 (first full day, at sea) in the piano bar, and hosted by another Randall—who happens to be the piano player in that space. We were all surprised to see 38 people show up, including about 8 women. Youngest…30-ish; oldest…70-ish. One couple has come all the way from Australia for this cruise, and many, as expected, are Californians. We’ve met two other couples who are MeetMeOnBoard.com members – Jimmy & Kevin we met through the site beforehand, and Hal and his partner choose not to list their cruises on the site, but still use the site. They actually recognized me from my photo here. Fame? Hardly…more-like notoriety.
There are some seriously die-hard cruisers among this group – several have taken more-than 40 cruises! Obsession? Nah…in my opinion just people who realize that cruising represents the best vacation value around.
Everyone introduced themselves, the bar offered 2 for 1 drinks, and it was plenty pleasant. The only sad thing: I’m sure there are at least another 40 (and more) gays on board who choose not to participate…their loss.
What’s your favorite “demographic mix” on a ship? Comment below, please!
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joe
I’ve taken a number of cruises on HAL and never seen any postings for a LGBT Meet. Where are these postings?
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Randall Shirley
Joe: on our ship it was listed in the printed daily schedule. I have been on ships where it was NOT listed (Celebrity), and on day #1 we mentioned it to the cruise director. He immediately said he’d schedule it daily if we’d promise to be there…so we did and we were! Cheers, Randall
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Jason Kennedy
Thanks, Randall! I was just wondering the same thing for our Oosterdam cruise on May 22nd to Alaska.
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Randall Shirley
Sailing today on Holland America's Oosterdam!
Editor Randall Shirley (right) and partner Denni at San Diego's Hotel del Coronado the night before boarding Holland America's Oosterdam.
Today’s the day we cruisers all dream about: embarkation day! Denni and I will board Holland America’s Oosterdam later this afternoon, bound for 7 nights of Mexican sunshine. We’ve already connected with other MeetMeOnBoard.com members who will be on board, and look forward to meeting them in person.
I’ll be blogging daily about the cruise — giving my impressions of Holland America from a middle-aged gay man’s perspective. If you have specific thoughts or questions about the Holland America experience, ask me, and I’ll do my best to find the answers while I’m on board.
And now, bon voyage to us!
Tad Dunlap, and 
David Samson are discussing. 
Darrell, 
Peter and one other person are discussing. 
Rex is discussing. 
Jason Kennedy, 
joe are discussing. 
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David Samson 10:05 pm on April 28, 2011 Permalink |
My partner and I sailed on Ryndam in January 2011 around Caribbean. I was the second youngest passenger at 63 (my partner at 49 the youngest!). We had no problems with other passengers or staff including officers at cocktail parties. A GLBT drinks session was advertised each evening. We went to a couple but were alone both times. Going on the Noordam in June 2011 so looking forward to whether the different passenger demographics means different atmosphere.
Tad Dunlap 6:14 pm on March 12, 2013 Permalink |
I sailed on the Westerdam in the fall of 2006 with the Chumley’s Bear Group. We encountered several examples of outright hostility from a Holland America F&B manager. And this was NOT someone from a developing nation with outdated sensibilities, unless you consider those from the Netherlands to be such. Several of us posted comments about this online on various websites. His glaring hostility did not make me anxious to try Holland America again, though I would be willing to give them a chance again someday on their newer ships. When I feel like being with very old, conservative folks who prefer very bland food, I know where to look.